I somehow (tag surfing) accidentally ended up on a blog the other night called “The Ultimate Goal”, specifically a post entitled “Why Atheism Does Not Exist”.
Some young man there, Adam Smith, was basically preaching the old “let no man be without an excuse” (for going to hell, that is) argument – because he claims that ALL people, miraculously, really DO believe in God.
Tell that not only to all the atheists, agnostics, but also to all the people of other religions who don’t believe in the same god as his bible. Not to mention all the third world people who don’t have the energy or time of day to learn about God because they are too busy starving to death. Apparently, they ALL KNOW they are wrong… and are either living in denial, or because they are just plain defying God on purpose and don’t WANT to follow his rules. I guess, that latter bunch must relish the idea of a permanent retirement home in a a fiery eternal pit of torment.
Anyway – I don’t know why I bothered to respond… when, I know it is useless – but, I did. Twice. Basically, telling him he was wrong. You can imagine how well that worked. LOL
I don’t know why I bother? I guess, there’s some small part of me, that hopes common sense and common courtesy will prevail. It seems it never does in these type situations. So, I suppose I am foolish for thinking it ever will.
I mean, how do you reason with someone who thinks THEY have ALL the answers… even so far as to tell others what THEY really think. ??? (not to mention someone who would try to prove their point by comparing the reality of Hell to the reality of an electric chair. Huh?).
My comments on his blog sparked a few others….
Some Christians wanting to save me… Some patting this kid on the back telling him how great he’s doing preaching the gospel. One nice christian made a comment, with the best intentions, I’m sure that went:
“if we knew the cure for cancer and never told anyone, would that be love? the problem is that no one knows they are sick.”
I wanted to respond by saying,
“What if people only TOLD you that you had cancer, just so that they COULD provide THEIR cure? “. It’s tempting to elaborate on that… but, I didn’t post it, and won’t bother to because it wouldn’t go anywhere anyway, I’m sure.
The Adam Smith’s of the world are convinced that people like me are in denial, living a lie, and living in sin and darkness. If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black… *sigh*
Ok – I’m done venting for now. Like I said in my 2nd post on his blog (and last) – I’m over it.
For prosperity sake, these were my comments on his bog:
5 January 2008 at 5:21 AM
I stumbled in here, obviously by mistake. My apologies if I’m not welcome.. and I probably shouldn’t bother posting – but, felt the need to reply anyway.
I did take offense to the over all message in this post…. because, it’s like saying I’m lying about what I believe or don’t believe. And, there’s a big difference between “not believing in something”, and “hating something and turning away from it because you WANT to”.
Your opinions, are of course, yours and you have a right to them. However, I think you’d have a hard time getting anyone other than another Christian to agree with you. If what you are saying is true… why wouldn’t at least SOME atheists say… “yeah… I know God exisits… I just don’t like him and won’t follow his commands”?? It’s absurd.
I’m agnostic…. and no, I don’t believe that I “KNOW there is God”… or that there is a “judegemt day coming” as you mentioned. I WISH I knew… but, alas… I do not.
I have nothing “in me” that MAKES me believe…. or that makes God “evident” to me. I do not know there is a god. So, I am not purposely CHOSING to not believe or follow “Him”.
I once believed. I tried to keep believing. But, the more I searched, the less I believed.
IMHO – This bible verse, and your belief in it, is just something Christians like to believe in order to make themselves feel better about believing that so many people are going to hell. It’s easier to believe that you loving god wouldn’t send anyone to hell… but, that those “bad” people are “chosing” to not believe… and therefore “choosing” hell… and therefore “deserve” it. What a load of crap. Nobody would chose to go to hell… I certainly do not want to go to hell (if there is one)… and do not believe I am going to hell… because I don’t believ there IS a hell. If, it turns out that I am wrong and there IS a God, I can’t believe he’s send me (and millions like me) to hell for not believing in him. Especially when he makes it so hard to believe….
Anyway – I certainly don’t “hate” God. ?? How could I hate something I don’t know is real??? Believe it or not, if I “knew” there was a god… I’d believe in him. I don’t. I am not alone.
then he responded:
6 January 2008 at 8:08 PM
This is a comment I received from one of my friends:
God will punish those that do not believe. Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. You don’t have to believe in God, like we all have heard so many times ‘your opinion is your own,’ but that doesn’t mean that He will not punish you.
I have never seen the electric chair, but I believe in it because I have heard so much about it. In fact, i’ve seen more of God than i have seen about the chair, but know both are true nonetheless. If i didn’t believe in the electric chair would that mean if i sat in it and someone turned it on it would not kill me? Of course not, to say so is to be willfully ignorant.
Just because someone ‘feels’ like they are a good person has two big problems. 1.) What are feelings. i feel mad at a friend, it will go away. i feel sad, my wife makes me smile. i feel happy, some one dies at work. i feel hungry and i eat a hamburger. feelings can not be trusted. and 2.) Who are you measuring yourself up against? If you’ve broken Gods law, you fail, and need help. That is why the gospel is so offensive to those living in darkness. It is a paradigm shift that they can’t expect to understand until the Holy Spirit speaks to their heart.
God will punish those that do not believe. His justice attributes will not allow Him to dwell with sin. If everyone would get to heaven by their feelings, what would be the point of sacrificing His only Son?
If this offends anyone, then you cannot be mad at the ones telling you about the Truth, you must be mad at the Truth itself.
and, I responded:
7 January 2008 at 5:27 AM
So, you are seriously comparing the electric chair, to hell? (Oh wait… not you… your friend?)
Hell, is a concept. An idea… A belief that has been interpreted numerous ways by numerous religions, and those interpretations have changed as many times over the centuries as the people who believe them. If it is a real place… well, other than your belief and faith in it, there’s absolutely no other proof it exists.
Unlike the electric chair – which has PLENTY of proof it exists whether you personally have seen it or not. See, the big difference here is the electric chair CAN be seen by anyone who so chooses to see it – either in person, or by a quick search on the internet. There’s no guess work or “faith” involved in it’s history, how it works, where it’s used, or what it looks like.
What a poor comparison, really.
At least compare Hell to something just as scary and just as not easy to prove… like… like…. ??? Hmmmm??? I can’t really THINK of anything else to compare it to that could actually be real, but has no proof of being real, let alone something that is just as scary… ?? Can you? Not so easy, it is? Hmmm… I wonder why that is?
And, who said anything about “feeling” like they were a good person? Although, now that you mention it… yeah… I guess I am an alright person. I love my kids, my family, I donate money and time to charities… I even take in stray animals. I know to you, none of this matters if it’s not done in the name of God… but, I bet my children, my friends, and the people I’ve helped out (not to mention the dogs I helped rescue) would probably beg to differ. Still… like ALL humans (Christians and Non-Christians alike), I have my short-comings… and am certainly a long way from perfect. No doubt. And I am always trying to improve (as you probably are too). Of course, everyone fails and needs help at some point… regardless of religion or creed. I never denied that. You just seek your help from different sources than I do.
I also never said anything about getting in to heaven based on “feelings”. I don’t believe in heaven anymore than I believe in hell. I really wish I did… it would make me feel a lot better about losing some of my loved ones… but, I just can’t… and not from lack of trying.
But no, that wasn’t my point at all in my previous post. I was simply responding to your post, where you said that ALL people KNOW deep down that God exists, and if they don’t believe, it’s because they are CHOOSING to not believe or follow him.. and not because they simply don’t know, or don’t believe.. or can’t believe. I still can’t disagree more with this.
As a friend once said to me:
“I don’t know about you guys/gals, but it is my very human understanding that Love given as The Ultimatum is not love, but manipulation in the name of love. Is “Free-Will” truly “FREE” when the only other option leads to hell?”.
I think not… and I can not believe in something just because someone tells me to… when my heart, my head, and my very being simply does not believe.
The “gospel” isn’t offensive to me because as you wrote “It is a paradigm shift …. (blah blah blah)”. It was your post, YOUR words, (Not the “gospel”) that was offensive because it was very condescending, and simply not true. I know what I think. I don’t need you to tell me what I think or why I think it. You don’t have a clue what I think or why.
Anyway, in case you care – I’m not offended anymore.
I’m over it.
I’m sure we can all sleep better at night now knowing this. 😉
I know you are believing what you think you should believe, and those beliefs cause you to speak accordingly. You can’t even see how basically rude and absolutely not helpful such talk is. I get it, though. You can’t help it. I get it, because I actually use to think a lot like you… and know plenty of people who still do. I feel sad for you – (and them) but, am not offended.
My apologies for interrupting your little blog of holier-than-though condemnation. Please go back to speaking as if you know everything, along with hating, judging, and threatening all those that dare to not believe the same things you do.
So much for that old hymn that I use to sing every Sunday – “And they’ll know we are Christians by our love.. by our love… “.
Guess you don’t know that one, huh?
Have a good one…
There were plenty of comments after this… but, not mine…