but, mostly “there”…

Well – I don’t really post much here anymore.  I started the blog almost 3 years ago… and, I think I’m about done here.  I just don’t feel like blogging about this stuff (religion, or my past, or my family issues) anymore… but, I’ll leave this blog up for now in case anyone else finds it interesting… or, in case I change my mind an decide I need to vent again.   =)

I think this blog served it’s purpose for me.  I guess, I really needed it and am glad I had it.  It was theraputic.  I think it helped me sort out a lot of junk in my head that I never really completely was open or honest with anyone before about in “real life”.   I think I learned a lot.  Grew a lot.  Like I understand more about my past and myself now.  I feel more at peace now, I think, than I ever did before.   More clear on how I feel and what I think.  More accepting of myself and others. 

I also met a lot of interesting people.  For the first time really, I learned that I was not alone with most of how I felt or thought.  It pretty much amazed me how many people there are out there that could actually relate to things I wrote about…  experiences I thought only I had.  Likewise, I was astounded to find so many out there that I could relate to also.  I want to thank any of you who might happen to check back here for your thoughts and “friendship” – even if it was virtual.   

Of course we (those few folks and myself) are still the exception.  My “real life” and world are filled with people who have no possible way to relate or get where I’m coming from, when it comes to my religious outlooks, etc.  I’m still the only agnostic/atheist and person who grew up with mental illness in the family that I know of in my own circle of family/friends. ..  But, that’s okay.  I think, for once in my life, I am really okay with that. 

As I mentioned in one of my last comments:

” I no longer hold any hostility towards my mother or “the church”.   I think I am FINALLY over that. I know they always meant well and thought they were doing the right thing – and as you pointed out – we are all only human. I can accept that and understand that – just as I know I certainly made/make my own mistakes. Lastly, I know that my Christian friends are good people – and that they care about me – just as I do them. “

Not only that – but, I no longer feel the need to hide my feelings…  or justify them… or question them.  While I might not broadcast the fact that I’m agnostic with those I don’t  know very well… I also don’t feel the need to hide it at all from those I do know.  No apologies.  They can either accept me ”as is” or not.  To my surprise, I don’t think anyone I really care about plans to disown me anytime soon because of our differences.  While we might not agree… or understand each other.. I think my family, and my true friends can agree to disagree on things.  Those that can’t? Well…  I think that’s more their problem than mine. 

Anyway – I’ll be around here and there…    but, mostly “there”. 

=) Take care people,
~smj

Well, that’s just Religulous…

Sorry for the long overdue responses and update to this post. I DID go see the movie Religulous..

I went a few weeks ago…  by myself.  This was the first time I ever went to a movie theater by myself – so, that alone was a trip.  But, I liked it – I found the whole experience very liberating… and validating… and by that, I mean both the movie itself, and the experience of going to a movie that I wanted to see all by myself… even if nobody else wanted to see it. 

I was actually a little apprehensive… wondering who I might run in to there, or if there’d be any over zealous right wing christian fanatics throwing things at me or something.  But, no… it was pretty mellow.

I went on a Tuesday evening, around 5:30 pm.  It was the night of the presidential debate, so I had just enough time to see the movie and get home for the debate.  The theater was pretty dead.  I think there was about 12 people there, tops.  I  noticed there were several loners like myself.  Probably in the same boat as me where they didn’t know anyone who would be caught dead going to see this for fear of rotting in hell.  I secretly hoped I would know one of the other loners there.   Like.. maybe a casual work acquaintance or something, and we could be like “Hey!  Wow!?!  I didn’t know you were a skeptical mother-hucker too!?!?”…  but, no…. I didn’t know anyone… so, I slunk into my chair with my popcorn in hand and sat back and enjoyed the show. 

I know there’s been some comments about Bill Maher being very rude and cocky… but, I have to say…  I found him to be quite funny and his sarcasm was like music to my ears.  I found the movie to be very……   validating.  Many of the questions he posed… are along the same lines as the way my own skeptical  mind thinks… and the very same things I quesiton.  The things he was pointing out as not making sense – DON’T MAKE sense! 

I liked the fact that he explored many different religions… granted, he only glazed the surface of them – and didn’t go deep into any one of them  – but, that was enough to point out the similar idiocracies in many of them.  That was actually sort of the beauty of it to me.  It wasn’t anything you had to dig deep to see… 

I laughed out louad a few times…  and when I wasn’t laughing, I was smiling.  Either a smile of amusement, or with content because I felt like ”yes – this is proof that I’m not the only person around this town who thinks religion is a crock!”….  It felt good to be able to laugh and not feel like I was going to get a lecture from someone…  of course…  I assume this post might just bring on a lecture or two… 

Did I mention the popcorn was good too? 

=)
~smj

Religulous

I so want to go see this movie when it comes out this weekend…   however, I’m sure I don’t know anyone who would go see it with me… and far be it from me to try to talk anyone into going to see it and have them accuse me of being the devil’s advocate. 

I will go see it, though…  somehow.  It looks hilarious, and poignant.

Imagine No Religion…

This was interesting news….   from the FFRF folks… (Freedom From Religion Foundation).  Apparently they are putting up billboards…

More details from fox news footage can be found by clicking here.

I hope they put up more.

Christian by default?

We have a new temp secretary where I work.  I’ve only known her for a few weeks now… and worked with her as her supervisor.  She’s nice enough… and trying to do a good job.  Like so many others where I work, she made it obvious she was a deeply religious Christian.  Which is fine with me… Whatever floats your boat… as long as you don’t try sinking mine if it is different than yours, I don’t care. 

When we went to lunch, she made a big point of bowing her head and saying a prayer before eating.  I patiently waited with my eyes open… but, did not participate.  A few times, she started talking about spirits and demons… and faith and God.  I politely listened, and then politely kept changing the subject.  I saw no reason to delve into my complicated background and (probably offensive to her) beliefs. 

She was a little over the top for me…  talking about angels and spirits and demons… and visits from past relatives.. and no coincidences.  I listened… but, told her I was a rather skeptical on such things but that I was glad she found peace in this.  Then, I tried to not go there again… and stick to work with her.  Still, I liked her well enough, and we could joke around a bit and work well together for the most part.  

Then, one afternoon she flat out asked me out of the blue , “do you go to church on Sundays?”… I truthfully and without any excuses or guilt said, “nope”.  Silence on her end and a questioning look seemed to beckon a further explanation from me.  I sort of thought I shouldn’t have to explain… but, found myself saying nonchalantly anyway, ”I use to go. I grew up going 3-5 times a week.  But, I had enough and some bad experiences with it.  So, I no longer go”.  And, I left it at that.  I went back to work on my PC… and ignored her disapproving, questioning look.  She muttered something like, “seems like that happens.  I never went to church until I was went on my own when I was in my 20’s and was saved”.  I just said, “mmHmmm”, and didn’t really respond.  I really was busy anyway…

She’s been there for about 4 weeks now…  and, we seem to be getting along just fine.  This past week I helped her make the transition into a different temp postion down the hall while her permanent replacement moved in with me.  I liked her… but, I like my friend that is taking the job perm with me better. 

Anyway, today, she was telling me some of the struggles of her new position… and she was very nice saying that she would rather be working with me… and that she really enjoyed working with me… and that I am a “good spirit”.  OOooooo Kay.  I’ll take that.  So, I said, Thanks.  She went on to say that she likes most everyone in our program/area…  and that she’s happy to be working around so many Christians like me. 

HUH?

Wait.  Now…  in my head… the brakes were going on…  I thought back… now, WHEN did I ever give her the impression that i am a Christian?  Because I was polite?  Because I was nice?  Because I listened to her?  I debated on if I should correct her, or let her believe that I was a Christian.  But, before I could say anything duty called and we were back to work. 

So, now I wonder…  do I let her believe what she wants to believe?? Or, do I politely somehow correct her and let her know I’m not really a “believer”? 

My gut tells me I should fess up… but, my brain wonders why I should have to fess up to not being something that I NEVER said I WAS???? 
And why the hell is this even all coming up where I work?  I mean really?  WTF? 

I guess, I’ll have to politely tell her the next time she implies I am “with her”… that I am not really “with her”.  It’s sad really, because I bet her whole opinion of me, and maybe even where we work will change if I do.  Sort of ridiculous.  Plus, I hate to get my “good spirit” comment revoked and get myself on yet another prayer list….    

*sigh*
~smj

Ya Gotta Have Faith

I recently was following a post on the “AbsoluteGrace” blog where they were discussing the Bible – which lead to discussing faith.   

Now, Grace seems like a very nice woman… as I’m sure are the other bloggers there…  and I have no desire to offend or ague with them.  I was just stating my feelings on the matter.  I’d thought I’d repost that here, where I can expand a bit more.

First, on her blog I wrote:

From: http://absolutegrace.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/the-bible-gods-word/

Willa said: “It takes faith to believe the Bible”

Joy said: “there is one ingredient that must be added; to fully appreciate, ’see’, and gain the most knowledge and use from the Bible…One must have faith.”

Faith is a problem for me. I simply don’t have it. Oh, I USE to have it. Believe it or not, I was once very very much a believer. It’s not like I haven’t read the bible. I grew up on it. I can quote more of it than most of my “religious” friends. And for many years I had faith in God. But, little by little… as I grew older, searched more, learned more, and tried to make sense of it all… my “faith” escaped me.

How do you “just believe” something that in your gut, your heart, and your head – simply make no sense? I can’t create something that I just don’t have.

My Christian friends will tell me “just TRY”… “it’s a CHOICE. Just BELIEVE”… “READ the bible with an open mind”… or “PRAY and God will help you!”.

As if I never tried those things?

For several years, I struggled with it… tried to cling to what little I had left… afraid to let it go completely… hoping it would come back to me. Believe me, I prayed. I read the bible. I really wanted to believe… and was afraid not to. Still, my faith eventually completely disappeared.

I miss it sometimes… the comfort it could bring….
But, it’s gone and I don’t know how to just “have faith” now.

What people with strong faith can probably not understand or believe – is that I feel much more comfortable and at peace without it.

~smj

This whole notion of “Faith” really does drive me crazy sometimes.  It’s so….. circular.  You can’t believe, unless you have faith.  You can’t have faith, unless you believe. 

Huh?

I mean, when else, other than religion, do we do this?  Since when is trying to reason things out a bad thing? 

I can think of no other example in which we would tell our children to “just believe something.  Don’t try to reason it out.  Don’t try to understand things that don’t make sense.  Even if it flat out doesn’t make sense to you – just believe it anyway.”    ???

Someone used the wind as an example.  “just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not there”. 
Right.  But, I can FEEL the wind.  I can SEE it’s effects.  I can watch the weather channel and the guy there can show me on the Doppler radar exactly what storms are coming in from where, and explain where that wind is coming from.  Wind makes sense.   

Telling me to just “have faith”…  would be like me telling someone,

 ”Santa IS real!  Despite anything you learned or saw or thought that might have proved the contrary… he really DOES exist.  Forget that it seems ridiculous that a man could travel around the world.  Forget that you SAW your parents wrapping your presents and signing “Santa” (they were just trying to mess you up!).  Forget any other things that led you to believe the contrary.  Just have faith!  And, if you just BELIEVE your life will be better for it and you will get great presents!  Well, you also have to follow his rules and be GOOD.  But, first you have to believe.  He won’t make sense unless you DO believe… and you won’t get any rewards unless you do… and if you DO believe… and you STILL don’t get any presents?  Well, you  must not have been a TRUE believer…  or you weren’t GOOD enough.  It’s your own fault for not really believing.  So, keep trying!  Why can’t you just believe?”.

Ok – that was a bit sarcastic and maybe comparing God to Santa isn’t the best analogy…  but, replace Santa with anything else.  I’m sure you get my drift.   I mean, how can you just believe in something you that simply makes no sense to you?  How does one DO that?   

Seriously, are there any other times we do this?  Have this “blind faith”??  

Like many things… I just don’t get it.

My Christian friends and I have actually had lots of real life friendly, and not-so-friendly, debates on such matters, and usually just need to agree to disagree.  In the end, they will tell me that I don’t WANT to get it – and so I don’t.  They can believe that if they want.    But, the truth is twofold.  One, I did try and wanted to “get it” for years… many years ago.  And, Two, at this point, they are right…  I no longer want it.  I am content, and even feel better off without it.  I’d still like to understand it, though.  

~smj

Spiritual Atheism…???

Hmmmm???   Now this peaked my interest… 

http://www.spiritualatheism.org/

 

In response to “Is Satan Real?”…

A post, over at “suddenly christian” caught my attention…  called “Is Satan Real?”.  It had quite the varied opinions – mostly all coming from very Christian people.  My initial response was posted there and was this:

“I found this whole thread pretty interesting. Amazing really… All the different things people chose to believe in, or not to believe in. ??

I personally don’t believe in Satan… but, then again, I also don’t believe in God – so, this makes perfect sense to me. Sure, I believe in there is “good” and “evil”… but, I don’t think it’s because of God or Satan.

What I don’t understand is how people CAN believe in God, and NOT believe in Satan. ?? If there’s a Heaven… isn’t there a Hell? And, who would it be “running” Hell, then if you don’t believe in Satan? Unless, you also don’t believe in Hell.. which, makes me wonder how you can believe in Heaven? I guess I don’t get how people can pick and chose the parts of the bible they believe in… ??

As for not hearing Satan talked about at church? I was raised baptist, then pentecostal, and we went to a few different churches over the years. I remember lots of sermons about the terrors of hell… and the threats of Satan impacting our lives… and even the casting out of “evil spirits” and demons from people. And, I live in the Northeast US…. I guess, times…. they are a-changin!… LOL To which, all I can say is GOOD…and NOT fast enough!

=)
~smj”

I was also just sort of talking about this in a recent reply I made here on my own blog, where I asked “How do you believe in one part of the bible or concept of God, and not the other parts?”. 

Anyway, I was going to post again in response on John’s site, but decided to just start a thread here instead since I wound up writing so much, and was coming in to that thread late anyway. 

Someone named “Christian” responded to my post  – basically saying it was okay to believe in the light, and not the dark… as “Darkness actually does not ‘exist’. 

I still find this whole concept pretty amazing. 

When I did believe in God… I also believed in Satan… heaven… hell… and all that I was taught at church, at home, and read in the bible.  When I finally began to question things, and eventually could no longer accept the concepts of hell, Satan, and certain bible stories/lessons as the truth – I also was forced to question the “truth” of God, Jesus, Heaven, and the “positives” – and stopped believing in those things as well.  They suddenly didn’t seem to “positive” anymore when I looked at the “big picture”. 

I mean, I see what Christian’s point was about the darkness – but it still doesn’t really make sense to me.  I have been told not to throw out the baby with the bath-water – but, in this case, I just don’t understand how to do that.  The idea of Satan and Hell, is just as nonsensical as the idea of God and Heaven to me.

It does seems that many Christians of today are able to let go of those “negative” concepts, without letting go of the “positives” in their beliefs.  To me, this is a good thing – even though I don’t understand it.  Believe me, I’d much rather be dealing with Christians who DON’T believe in Satan and Hell, and who aren’t condemning me to a pit of eternal hell when I don’t believe what they do.  Unfortunately, I seem to know all the ones who DO seem to think I’m quite doomed.   LOL 

As far as I can tell, religions, and the people belonging to them, tend to change their belief systems and slowly move with the times…  I mean, look at how the Catholic church has “bended the rules” or just plain decided to change the rules in the last decade or so?  And, how many churches DO preach the “positives” now, rather than the “negatives”.  I guess those sermons of hellfire and brimstone just don’t pack em’ into the pews like they use to. 

Like I said, I actually wish this was happening even more – not because it would make me believe, but because I think people would just be nicer to deal with.  But, at the same time – to me – this is also just more proof that “the word of god”, is really the word of mankind, and continues to be adjusted by mankind to suit mankind’s needs/desires. 

~smj

Atheists in foxholes…

I’ve always heard that “there are no atheists in foxholes”…  According to Wikipedia this means:

“The statement “There are no atheists in foxholes” is used to imply that atheists really do believe in God deep down, and that in times of extreme stress or fear, such as when participating in warfare, the belief will surface, overwhelming the less substantial affectation of atheism.”

Is this true?  Do all atheists eventually call out to God – like when they are on their deathbeds?

I have to say no.  And, I say this because of the one atheist that I knew very well… and whom I watched die slowly… and all that went with that.  My father.  And, did I ever see him wobble on this?  Suddenly admit he was wrong and ask for God’s help?  No.  I didn’t.

Matter of fact, I watched him once go into surgery.  It was pretty major surgery (aneurysm repair) and considering all his health issues – he had a good chance of having complications, or death. They told him it was a more difficult surgery than open heart surgery.  Anyway, I was with him at the hospital.  And, after they had him all prepped for surgery I was talking with him.  When, in walks a priest and he says to my father, “hello.  would you like me to pray with you?”.  My father, said, “no. thank you”.  Part of me was thinking, “oh come on Dad.  What could it hurt?”…. but I just stood there, as the priest said, “oh. ok.  are you Catholic?”.  And, I’ll never forget, my dad looked up at him and without a hint of defiance or hesitation, he just said, “nope. I’m an atheist”.  The priest looked at me…  I looked back and shrugged my shoulders at him.  He left the room… and my dad just continued our previous conversation, like nothing at all. 

At the time, I wasn’t sure if that was a wise thing to do or not, but, I did think, that took some pretty big balls.  It also shot that “no atheists in foxholes” theory to hell for me.  I mean, here was my dad… and he knew he could die, and he didn’t think twice. 

And, it makes sense…  I mean… if you REALLY don’t believe in God… why on earth would you want to pray to him – even at death’s door. 

By the way, my dad survived that surgery…. although, it wasn’t easy… and he didn’t actually pass away until a few years later.  When he did die, he knew he was going to die for a few months before he actually did.  He was on hospice care in my home…  and we had time for many many many talks… about life, and death.   Never once did I see him act like he was changing his mind about being an atheist.  I’m sure that in a way, he probably wished that he could.  I mean, lets face it, dying has to be a bit easier if you think you are going to a “better place”.  So, why NOT just repent and ask God into your heart at the last moment?  I tell ya why not…  Because he just didn’t believe.  Period. 

Now, what really always amazes me… is how so many Christians will tell you about people who DO repent on their deathbeds.  TI can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve heard that go something like this:

Christian 1:  ”did you hear Billy’s uncle so-and-so passed away?”

Christian 2:  ”No, he did? Oh, that’s too bad.  Was he a Christian?”

Christian 1: “well, he wasn’t… but, so-and-so prayed with him just before he died and we THINK he asked Jesus into his heart just before he died”. 

Christian 2:  “really?  Hallelujah!”

It amazed me, even when I was a child, how many times this happened.  No matter how “bad” the person was,  this always was the case.  Somebody always prayed with them on their deathbed, and we were always either 100% or 99% sure that they were saved “just in time”.  Don’t you think that’s a little bit convenient?  Both for the dying person, and for all their Christian relatives/friends? I don’t think I ever remember anyone in church ever asking that question “were they a Christian?”, and the other person saying, “no. they are probably in hell”. 

People believe what they want to believe. 

My own brother, (the one who went to church with me for years and isn’t all that religious anymore but, seems to have hung on to parts of it ) – tried to tell me that he thought our Dad might have done this.  ?!?  I was like, “what? when!?”….  He said, he talked to him and they talked about whether or not there was an afterlife and that he (my brother) asked him why he didn’t just ask God into his heart, “just in case”. 

Interested, I asked what my dad’s response was and my brother told me that he didn’t say too much, but, he THINKS that MAYBE he DID think twice, and maybe he did ask him into his heart.   I disagreed, and told him about some of the conversations I had with dad where he was very matter of fact about his disbelief in heaven and hell.. and, about what he did believe happens when you die… which was nothing.  We even talked about his former near death experiences, when he did actually die on an operating table when he was 12 but was revived.  How I never got the  feeling from him at all about having any doubts.  But, my brother didn’t want to hear any of this really… and he tried to shrug it off and say, “yeah.. well.. ya never know.. I think, maybe he did believe”. 

I just looked at my brother in awe… I dawned on me that he just really wanted to believe this. I guess, maybe… he really needed to believe this…  Just like all those other people at church when they spoke of Billy’s Uncle so-and-so or whatever. 

I started to think that if my father didn’t argue with him, or tell him how he really felt – that maybe he did it for a reason.  Maybe he knew that my brother needed to have this hope.   That would be just like my Dad…  not to lie… but, to let you believe what you want to believe. 

So, who am I do try to take that away from him?

But, you can’t make me believe he wasn’t an atheist to the end. 

I’m sure, there are atheists  who DO change their mind… and call out to God when in their final hours… or accept Jesus into their hearts “just in case”, but I know of at least one atheist who did not.

And, apparently, he’s not alone…  I found a few websites dedicated to atheists in foxholes…

http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/
http://ffrf.org/foxholes/

Why do Atheists care about Religion?

For all those who ask atheists or agnostics “why do you talk about religion and God if you don’t believe??”…

Now… I may have some of my own very personal reasons for losing my faith and having my doubts…  personal reasons that I  I have spewed out all over this blog…  but, here are a few…   not so personal reasons… that should help anyone understand the bigger reasons out there for blogs like this…

and, more -

Lastly, some food for thought…